数字艺术访谈系列 II
Digital Art Interview Series II
「数字艺术访谈系列」是由侨福当代美术馆·北京推出的主题艺术专栏，此系列文章聚焦于当代数字艺术的发展脉络与由此衍生出的文化现象，并以访谈的形式，每一期邀请国内外知名的当代数字艺术家，推广者，及收藏家，通过他们的独特视角来解读当代数字艺术所呈现的多元性创造力。
“Digital Art Interview Series” is a themed artistic column initiated by The Parkview Museum Beijing. This series of articles focuses on the development of contemporary digital art and the derived cultural phenomena. In the form of interviews, each issue invites worldwide well-known contemporary digital artists, promoters, and collectors to interpret the diverse creativity presented by digital art through their unique perspectives.
侨福当代美术馆·北京 × 曹寅
The Parkview Museum Beijing × CAO Yin
Q1
您是何时开始关注数字加密艺术这种“独特的”艺术形式的？
When did you start getting involved in digital art? Within the framework of digital art, what are the subject matters you are more interested in?
Q: 侨福当代美术馆·北京 | The Parkview Museum Beijing
A: 曹寅 | CAO Yin
我对数字加密艺术的关注是从2019年开始的。因为工作的原因，我常年在中国与欧洲两地往返，尤其是以数字艺术中心著称的柏林。在柏林有很多艺术家都在从事数字艺术，而在其中已经有一小群人开始思考并使用智能合约（NFT）来创作加密艺术作品。我通过与这群人的结识，并了解他们的艺术创作理念与方式，激发了自己对加密艺术的兴趣，并同时开始了加密艺术的收藏与一些相关项目的投资。I started getting involved in digital art and specifically in crypto art in 2019. At that time, I used to travel for business very often between China and Europe, and I often went to Berlin, the center of digital art. There, among the artists who were working with digital art, there was a small group of artists who were focusing on NFT to create crypto art. The fact that I got acquainted with this group of people and knew their artistic practice and vision awakened my interest in crypto art. At that time, I also started collecting crypto art and making some investments.
曹寅收藏
Collected by CAO Yin
罗比·巴拉特，「圣纳泽尔」，第1版，共1版
Robbie Barrat，Saint Nazaire, Edition 1 of 1
“终于能够接受一种工作方式，即并非每幅图像都必须经过人工智能处理、或是针对数字人工的新回应。两者兼得的方式很好，但只制作与我生活相关的图像也很不错。”
“Finally accepting that not every image has to be a trick new way to use AI or a new answer to some question about digital artifacts. It’s nice to do both, but it’s also okay to just make images that are about my life.”
—— 罗比·巴拉特 | Robbie Barrat
推特 Twitter (2020.04.22)
Q2
您怎样理解“去中心化”这个概念以及它与艺术的关系？
What do you think about the relationship between the concept of decentralization and art?
首先，我对于数字加密艺术中的“加密”概念有3种理解。其一，是以加密作为一种技术来进行艺术创作（例如智能合约，密码学的技术）。其二，是以加密技术与社区中的那些空间作为艺术的展示媒介来呈现艺术作品。其三，是以加密文化作为主题——即去中心化，来思考并创作的艺术作品。所以“去中心化”作为一个主题与艺术的关系，我个人认为可以被认知为一种价值观，可以说是一种意识形态，英文写作ideology。First of all, I have developed three ways to understand the notion of “crypto” within the definition of “crypto art.” The idea of “crypto” can be associated with the technology used to create art pieces (like NFT and cryptography). Moreover, it can also be associated with the idea that crypto technology and the community’s space can be considered the platform to present this kind of art. Ultimately, it is strictly connected with the crypto culture, which represents the subject matter of many works of this kind. Namely, decentralization can be acknowledged as the conceptual basis to create works of art. The relationship between the notion of decentralization as a subject of creation and art can also be associated with a new value system: we can even define it as ideology.
Ernest Wu，「加载中 加载中」，2021，gif.
Ernest Wu, Loading Loading, 2021, gif.
图片版权归艺术家所有 | Image copyright belongs to the artist
从这个角度去理解加密艺术，就不仅仅把它理解为只是借助了加密学技术来创作的艺术作品，而是其中包涵了能够表达、传播去中心化这种价值观或意识形态的一种独特艺术形式。所以这样一来，必然会围绕这种价值观体系形成一个社区与一个阶层以及一个围绕加密技术所搭建的生产力体系。If we analyze crypto art from this point of view, we can then understand that it is not just a form of art based on the usage of cryptography but also a unique art form that expresses and spreads the ideology of decentralization. In this way, inevitably, a new community, a new social stratum, and a new system of production associated with the crypto technology emerge around this system of value.
所以回答“去中心化与艺术的存在关系问题”就是在回答“一个相对于传统世界的，自洽的加密资产社区是如何形成的问题。”那么整个加密文化的这个庞大的概念，就是建立于这一价值观上的一种类似图腾式的文化现象。海德格尔在《论艺术》中说了一段经典的他个人对于艺术的定义：Art is the means by which a community develops for itself a medium for self-expression and interpretation。（大意：艺术是社会利用媒介进行自我表达和阐释的一种方法。）So, to answer the relationship between art and decentralization, it means to answer how a self-consistent community based on crypto property managed to emerge in a traditional world. The concept of crypto culture is highly comprehensive, and it is based on the totem-like cultural phenomenon of this system of value. Heidegger provided his own definition of art: Art is the means by which a community develops for itself a medium for self-expression and interpretation.
曹寅收藏
Collected by CAO Yin
内伊茨·波洛夫萨克（Twistedpoly），
「一个新星的诞生」（视频中的一帧），第1版，共1版
Still from Nejc Polovsak’s (Twistedpoly) A star is born, Edition 1 of 1
一个新的开始，一个由数百万个小元素和原始音频组成的恒星诞生的抽象形式
A new beginning, abstract representation of a star being born, made up of millions of small elements with original audio
我认为这个理念就是加密艺术形成的过程与典型的逻辑。然后加密社区的形成不仅仅是表达和输出自己的价值体系，而是在这个过程中产生了一种强大的凝聚力：去掉了所有参与者的阶级性、语言障碍、国籍与地域障碍等，从而获得了一种身份认同。我认为这是一个很了不起的事件，堪称是一次觉醒。所以这是个非常重要的认知，总结来说：去中心化的技术催生了一种价值观/意识形态，艺术作为一种表达媒介起到了凝聚、构建、强化这种价值体系与“加密人”身份的有效手段之一。I think that this concept is the formation process. The classical logic of crypto art as the emergence of a crypto community is not only the expression of a personal value system. Yet, it is also connected to the cohesive force that emerges from this process, eliminating the participants’ socioeconomic class differences, linguistic barriers, nationality, and geographical obstacles to ultimately achieve a new identity status. I think that this is extremely important, and this phenomenon can even be called an epiphany. In short, the technology of decentralization generates a new system of value/ideology, and art is an effective means to aggregate, establish and reinforce this value system and the identity of the crypto community.
曹寅收藏
Collected by CAO Yin
内伊茨·波洛夫萨克（Twistedpoly），「一个新星的诞生」，第1版，共1版
Nejc Polovsak (Twistedpoly), A star is born, Edition 1 of 1
一个新的开始，一个由数百万个小元素和原始音频组成的恒星诞生的抽象形式
A new beginning, abstract representation of a star being born, made up of millions of small elements with original audio
Q3
作为一个收藏家，相对于传统架上艺术而言，您对数字艺术的最大兴趣是什么？
As an art collector, what attracts you the most in collecting digital art rather than traditional forms of art?
首先，相对于传统架上艺术而言，最令我感兴趣的是它的“时代性”。在当下以数字化工作、社交为背景的环境下，这种外在的感官体验尤为突出与强烈。在这其中我个人感受最深的既是一种社交习惯的改变：人们更多的开始享受线上“远距离”社交所带来的安全感与舒适感，而艺术品作为一种社交工具也随着这个大的环境背景的进化而进化。First of all, in comparison with the traditional art forms, I am interested in digital art for its relevance with our contemporary era. We live in a time of widespread digitalization, both in terms of work environment and social life. This extra-sensorial experience has a substantial and prominent impact. I think that this process of digitalization exerted a strong influence, especially on our social life habits. Many people enjoy the sense of comfort and safety provided by online social interaction. Art, as a means of social interaction, follows this shift of paradigm.
虚拟设施视图：艺术家上线了，虚拟世界中的数字绘画和雕塑，
KÖNIG GALERIE，Decentraland，2021
Installation view: The Artist is Online.
Digital Paintings and Sculptures in a Virtual World,
KÖNIG GALERIE, Decentraland, 2021
图片版权归KÖNIG GALERIE所有 | Image copyright belongs to KÖNIG GALERIE
也正是由于当下互联网给人们提供了一种独特的社交环境，所以数字加密艺术正因这个环境孕育而出，它更多起到了原来传统的架上绘画以沙龙式线下的社交环境中所起到的工具性作用。Nowadays, the internet provides people with a unique space for social exchange: digital and crypto art stems from this environment, and therefore, in comparison with the traditional art forms whose reception is mainly offline and associated with the salon-like social environment, digital art can play an instrumental role within the general process of digitalization.
Sofia Crespo，「精神动物园」，数码、亚克力打印，2018-19
Sofia Crespo, Neural Zoo, Digital, acrylic prints, 2018-19
其二，对于艺术品的“所有权”观念，加密艺术也为数字艺术提供了身份属性，例如原来对于数字艺术的收藏通常使用证书的形式，而加密技术的出现成功的解决了这个问题，并使得数字艺术可在虚拟网络中作为物被真实的交换交易。这对于数字艺术收藏者来说是很了不起的事。Moreover, regarding the issues related to property rights, crypto art provides digital art with an identity property. For example, in the beginning, the digital art collection was associated with the usage of the certificate of authenticity. However, crypto technologies successfully solved this issue, enabling digital artworks to be effectively exchanged and traded as objects within the virtual network; this is a great achievement for digital art collectors.
Sofia Crespo，「精神动物园」，数码、亚克力打印，2018-19
Sofia Crespo, Neural Zoo, Digital, acrylic prints, 2018-19
最后，对我个人而言，我更容易和数字艺术产生共鸣，这与个人的美学喜好与趣味有很大关系。与此同时，我还可以以策展人的身份将我收藏的作品以一种我个人的独特理解将它们再次展出，这对于我来说是一种再表达的过程。Finally, for me, digital artworks have more resonance, which has to do with personal interests, sense of aesthetic, and preferences. Moreover, as a curator, I also can present my collection uniquely and originally: this is also a new form of self-expression.
Q4
请您介绍一下您收藏的第一件数字艺术作品。
Could you talk about the first digital work you collected?
我收藏的第一件数字加密艺术品，是一位朋友送给我的（其实就是一件无比普通的作品 ，毫无意义）。The first work of digital crypto art I collected was given to me by a friend (actually, it was a rather common piece of art with no real meaning).
曹寅收藏
Collected by CAO Yin
Genesis Art
以太坊 ethereum logo
Q5
对于如何构建您的数字艺术收藏体系，请您分享一些独特的构想？
Could you share with us your thoughts about creating a systematic collection of digital art?
对于加密艺术的收藏，我有一个很清晰的收藏思路。第一，我首先摒弃了一些传统架上绘画通过加密技术进行一种“加密艺术衍生”的转化，例如安迪·沃霍尔的那些加密衍生品，这类作品肯定不会列入我的收藏体系。所以我对加密艺术品的选择有以下条件：艺术家（创作者）本身具鲜明的身份属性，例如我上面提到的“加密人”的属性或者是一些少数群族的，亚文化的群体都可以，并且这些艺术家们必须要有很明确的想通过数字媒介去表达的独特价值观。I have a very clear strategy regarding the collection of crypto art. First of all, it is important to break away from the idea of collecting digital artworks that can be considered derivative items of traditional artworks. For example, crypto artworks from Andy Warhol’s works would never be part of my collection. I chose crypto works based on some criteria. The artist’s identity plays a crucial role: the artist (the creator in general) has to be innovative and ideally should come from the crypto community or a minority group (anybody from the Asian cultural community can be suitable). Moreover, artists should have a clear vision about expressing a unique system of values through the digital.
而且我还会以赞助人的身份去帮助一些有意思的艺术家完成他们的数字加密艺术作品。我把这类以艺术家为中心的创作称为“身份性艺术创作”，我同时和他们一样也以一个类似创作者（策展人）的身体介入到这类艺术作品的收藏与展示的活动中。
I am also very keen on operating as an art patron to support and help creative artists complete their crypto artworks. I call this artist-centered innovative approach “identity art creation.” With the same creative approach as an art creator or a curator, I enjoy participating in activities and initiatives to collect and present works of art.
曹寅收藏
Collected by CAO Yin
Fewocious，「这么多的头痛」，第1版，共1版，gif.
Fewocious, So Many Headaches, Edition 1 of 1, gif.
除了这类“身份性艺术创作”的艺术品收藏以外，我还有另一个收藏主题即“生成性艺术”。我一直在思考“何为艺术？”这个问题，也就是在提问“创作艺术是否只是属于人类的能力？”所以我收藏很多生成性艺术品，尤其是通过GAN来创作的艺术品（英文Generative Adversarial Network，简称：GAN）。Alongside the principle of “identity art creation,” another aspect characterizes my approach to collection: the notion of “generative art.” I always have a question in mind: “What is art?”. This question sounds similar to another one: “does art creation just belong to the realm of human capabilities?”. So, I collected many works of generative art, especially those artworks created with the GAN system (Generative Adversarial Network).
Sofia Crespo，「精神动物园」，数码、亚克力打印，2018-19
Sofia Crespo, Neural Zoo, Digital, acrylic prints, 2018-19
GAN的运行理念是计算机通过不断地自我学习与识别之间的对抗性来生产有趣的艺术作品。所以我收藏了一批很优秀的“生成性”艺术家的作品例如Robbie Barrat、Sofia Crespo等人的作品。我认为我对“生成艺术”的收藏同时也是进行人类学的标本收集，因为这些作品不仅具有艺术史的意义，也具有人类文明史的意义。The operating concept of GAN is based on the idea that computers, through a contrast between self-learning and recognition systems, can create fascinating works. I collected many interesting pieces of generative art, including works from Robbie Barrat, Sofia Crespo, and other artists. Collecting works of generative art is also a way to collect specimens of anthropology. These artworks encompass a historical connotation while also representing a symbol of the history of human civilization.
罗比·巴拉特，「AI生成的人体肖像 1号」，2018
Robbie Barrat，AI Generated Nude Portrait #1, 2018,
Digital image made with GAN.
当下人类文明正在处于进化的基点，有些类似忒修斯之船的假设，我们可以设想替换掉多少人类的部分，人类不再称之为人？所以我对数字加密艺术的收藏，也是对人类本身如何进化发展的一种观察，从而找到一些新的关于如何定义“人”的标准。Human civilization nowadays reached the highest point of evolution. Establishing parallelism with the paradox of the Ship of Theseus, if, throughout time, we replace many parts of humanity, can humans still be considered humans? The interest in collecting art derives from observing humankind’s progress and evolution while looking for new standards to define “humanity.”
关于受访者
About the Interviewee
曹寅是数字复兴基金会的创始合伙人，该基金会是一家位于亚洲和欧洲的数字金融咨询机构。他曾是中国最大的金融资产管理公司中国信达证券的数字金融首席专家。在创立数字复兴基金会之前，他是一位成功的企业家，他于2015年共同创立了全球第一家专注于区块链技术能源和绿色金融应用的公司Energy Blockchain Labs，并于2017年将公司出售。与此同时，曹寅也中国最早的区块链技术倡导者之一。
CAO Yin is the founding partner of Digital Renaissance Foundation, a digital financial advisory agency based in Asia and Europe. He was also the Chief Expert of Digital Finance of China Cinda Security, China’s biggest financial asset management company. Before founding the Digital Renaissance Foundation, he was a successful entrepreneur. He co-founded the Energy Blockchain Labs, the world’s first company focused on blockchain technology energy and green finance application, in 2015 and sold the company in 2017. CAO Yin is one of the earliest advocators of blockchain technology in China.
本文来自芳草地艺术，经授权后发布，本文观点不代表星空财经BlockGlobe立场，转载请联系原作者。
